America is Pound-For-Pound Worse Than Al-Qaeda

- Every round. - Absolutely.

- This doesn't justify the action, mind you.

This is more so analysis to stop further violence

from taking place, both violence in the region,

but also violence in the home front as well.

- The reason I bring up those things is because

those are specifically cited by a song of Bin Laden

as justification for, and I guess my question is--

- And also our, you know, our civil liberties.

- Well, did Bin Laden have a point?

- No, I think that the action was so heinous

and so violent and also given his position

as formerly an American ally,

as I believe it was a telegraph I call him,

the brave warrior fighting against the USSR

to try a path of peace in Afghanistan,

I think that he came across a little bit more

as a spoiled brat that wasn't getting his way,

with many backers in the Saudi kingdom

as well in the royal family.

- Bin Laden, me, he wrote in that letter,

which as you know, has sort of had a second life

among some in the left wing,

that Americans would be irrational,

not to expect, to, irrational to expect

to live in peace and prosperity

after, you know, over half a century

of meddling in the Middle East.

Isn't that the definition of blowback?

- Yeah, it is, it is the definition of blowback.

And I want less actors, like Osama Bin Laden,

to exist in general.

There's two schools of thought on this.

One is obviously to, you know, kill as many people

in the region as possible,

with the hopes that we can squash

any kind of resistance whatsoever.

And the other path of least resistance

is to not interfere in these affairs in general

and not continue to dominate

and create an environment where people

are going to seek out revenge and put us

in a position of danger.

- But it's just, what's the difference

between deserved and blowback?

- Yeah, I think the difference

between deserved and blowback is the justification.

- So blowback is not, blowback is not a justification.

Blowback is just what it is.

A justification offers either a moral condemnation

or a moral acceptance of the act.

I do not accept the act of 9/11 morally.

I believe that it was a horrifying tragedy.

- Also talking, you know, to keep on the Middle East

a little bit, the Trump administration has used the fact

of we can't let Iran have a nuclear weapon

as justification for this war.

- Do you think Iran should be free to build a nuclear weapon?

- I think Iran, much like any other sovereign nation,

has a right to defend itself,

regardless of its domestic policies.

My opinion on the matter is not dissimilar

to what John Mersheimer has said,

which is that in order to create regional stability

in a world where mutually assured destruction

is the only way for countries to have sovereignty.

It's the same principle that I apply to Ukraine as well.

Countries that would have nuclear arms

in an age of nuclear proliferation

are the only countries that can generate true sovereignty.

Now, having said that, do I want Iran to have nuclear arms?

No, but I also don't want America or Russia or China

to have nuclear arms either.

- Do you think the Middle East would be more stable

if Iran had a nuclear weapon?

- I believe yes.

I think that the Middle East would be more stable.

Having said that, once again, I'm not advocating.

I'm not trying to, you know, send Iran

in rich nuclear uranium, but with respect to Iran,

I think the nuclear conversation is a distraction.

Time and time again, they have shown the Iranian government,

regardless of whether you want to trust them or not,

you can just look at their actions,

have proven that they are utilizing the conversation

of enriched uranium as a point of leverage

to bring America back to the table to get sanctions relief.

And we had a successful deal in play with the JCPOA

under the Obama leadership.

It was very controversial.

It was not only critically panned by the entirety of the right,

but also even Democrats, including Chuck Schumer,

were very critical of this deal.

And yet it was probably Obama's signature

foreign policy accomplishment.

And it unfortunately took us a decade or two decades

to come to that recognition,

to come to terms with that reality.

But I think that that deal alone,

this, you know, multi-year, multilateral deal

that actually brought in China and Russia,

as well as European partners,

the International Atomic Energy Agency,

had shown that Iran was willing

to engage in diplomacy with the West.

- One last thing on the Middle East and on this topic,

at least, you once said that America

is the top dog in terrorism.

- Yes.

- Do you think America then is worse than al-Qaeda?

- Pound for pound, as far as the number of deaths.

Yes, we have caused tremendous terror all around the world.

I think that that is not only terror

that we are waging on regular civilians

in nations in the periphery,

but it's also having consequences on ourselves.

It's having dramatic consequences on the home front.

One clear example of this is what we did in Minna, right?

There's no distinction between blowing up a school,

triple tapping it with Tomahawk missiles.

If you're killing 140 school girls,

that is an act of terror.

This doesn't mean that all Americans are terrorists,

but the reality of the matter is,

we have to create an environment of accountability

to ensure things like that never happen again.

If we wanna seek out and punish those who terrorize us,

like al-Qaeda, sometimes, you know, we aid in a bet,

al-Qaeda, when we find them to be a reliable ally

in places like Yemen, for example,

but if we understandably wanna seek out

and punish terrorist entities like al-Qaeda,

we should also hold ourselves to a similar standard.

If not a higher standard.

You said not all Americans are terrorists.

- Not fair.

- Well, insinuating that, some are.

- I think if you are doing terrorism,

then yes, you are a terrorist.

This is a loaded term at the end of the day,

it's a vague term, and I'm not deploying it

in the way that the American State Department

utilizes it, which is a utilization of the term,

terrorism, with the express purpose

of denying habeas corpus.

I think everyone needs to have their day in court,

no matter how vile or heinous they might seem.

Having said that, like I keep repeating over and over again,

I think it's important to create accountability

to make sure that we do not repeat these mistakes,

not only because it creates an environment of blowback,

but also because there's a finite amount of time

and energy that we have, right?

If we're using all of our productive output,

all of our resources, on waging wars overseas

for profit and plunder, we're not using those resources

on ourselves, we're not using it on building schools,

we're not using these resources on fixing the pothole,

something as simple as that,

and we're losing our competitive edge around the globe.

I'm an American citizen.

I talk about how frustrated I am with this country,

even say, God, I hate this country sometimes.

Having said that, if I truly hated this country, one,

I'd probably be a Republican, let's be real,

because I think they're destroying this country,

or I would just leave.

There's a reason why I stay here.

There's a reason why I keep advocating

for the things that I'm advocating for,

because I truly believe in the promise of America.

I believe in the goodness of my neighbors,

I believe in the goodness of American citizens,

and I know that people of good conscience

can see right from wrong,

and a lot of people are frustrated

because they're not seeing the changes,

and that develops, that breeds apathy,

and I want to fight back against that,

and I want Americans to take control

over the reins once again.

(upbeat music)

- I'm shifting topics, Charlie Kirk.

You had known him for a long time.

- Yeah.

- After he was killed, you called it fucking devastating.

You know, it's a horrifying thing you've ever seen,

and pure horror,

but months later, you started sarcastically

singing the song "We Are Charlie Kirk."

You sang it live last month on tour,

and later explained, "It's not my fault.

"The song is a banger."

- Yes.

- You told your followers when he was killed

to stop making jokes.

- Yeah.

- But then why did you start?

- Great question.

The hagiography of Charlie Kirk was,

and the forced reverence coming from,

not only the Republican Party,

but like the government in general,

and even some members of the liberal intelligentsia,

was the reason why there was so much pushback.

And even the "We Are Charlie Kirk" song itself

is a way to, it was an attempt by a Republican

who was a fan of Charlie Kirk to honor his legacy.

While Charlie Kirk, the actions that took place,

the assassination of Charlie Kirk is a heinous crime,

and completely unjustifiable,

I very quickly also talked about my disagreements

with Charlie Kirk.

And there were plenty of people,

plenty regular citizens who were doing that as well.

There were people who-

- I'm not pushing that.

- There were people who-

- No, no, no, no, but it's important,

because this is a big part of why this backlash,

or rather, this is a big part of why people

took this not as seriously.

The argument isn't,

oh, these people are elated at the fact

that Charlie Kirk was killed.

Are there people who feel that way?

Absolutely.

I'm not one of those people.

- Yeah, but when you sing the song to your audience,

you know that some of those people

are those people that are elated that he's dead.

- There could be.

I'm not going to deny that,

but at the end of the day,

my opinion, and the opinion of my community,

is that political violence is completely unacceptable.

However, it's also unacceptable

to try to apply force reverence,

and literally cancel people

for quoting Charlie Kirk's own statements.

- Understand it. - Pointing Charlie Kirk's own statement.

- And firing people.

- I understand, but by singing the song,

aren't you mocking something?

- I'm mocking Charlie Kirk's positions,

and also on top of that,

I'm mocking the force reverence that took place.

I'm not mocking Charlie Kirk's assassination,

I'm not justifying Charlie Kirk's assassination,

I think that is unjustifiable.

My position on that is very clear.

- You don't think you're making light of it?

- No.

And the reason why I say that is because

I have written extensively on the subject,

not only was I supposed to,

not only have I known Charlie.

- Oh, no, I've read all the things.

- For a decade.

- Yes, but also I was supposed to be on stage with him.

- I know, and an environment where political violence

is justified against political actors

is an environment where I'm also a danger,

so it's a matter of self-preservation,

as well as having a morally consistent position on it.

- Okay, well, on the topic of political violence,

that's part of the reason I wanted to bring up Charlie Kirk.

I'm gonna read you some of the things that you've said.

- Yeah.

- After a debate with Kirk several years ago,

you said on your stream, I wanna fucking kill him.

- You then backtrack and you said,

you meant it in a video game way.

- I don't even remember this.

- Can I get through them?

- Yeah, go ahead and respond.

- You were banned on Twitch in 2025

after saying if people cared about Medicare fraud,

they would kill Senator Rick Scott.

- Yeah.

- You wanna sit?

- No, really quick.

- Well, I wanna clarify because--

- No, I can clarify them all, I just wanna go through.

- I know, but if I do it piece by piece,

if I do it, you know,