IC–040 | America is Pound-For-Pound Worse Than Al-Qaeda
Transcript. Timestamps are stored-video seconds.

[0:00] - Every round. - Absolutely.
[0:01] - This doesn't justify the action, mind you.
[0:03] This is more so analysis to stop further violence
[0:07] from taking place, both violence in the region,
[0:11] but also violence in the home front as well.
[0:13] - The reason I bring up those things is because
[0:15] those are specifically cited by a song of Bin Laden
[0:18] as justification for, and I guess my question is--
[0:21] - And also our, you know, our civil liberties.
[0:24] - Well, did Bin Laden have a point?
[0:28] - No, I think that the action was so heinous
[0:31] and so violent and also given his position
[0:36] as formerly an American ally,
[0:39] as I believe it was a telegraph I call him,
[0:41] the brave warrior fighting against the USSR
[0:45] to try a path of peace in Afghanistan,
[0:47] I think that he came across a little bit more
[0:52] as a spoiled brat that wasn't getting his way,
[0:57] with many backers in the Saudi kingdom
[0:59] as well in the royal family.
[1:01] - Bin Laden, me, he wrote in that letter,
[1:03] which as you know, has sort of had a second life
[1:05] among some in the left wing,
[1:07] that Americans would be irrational,
[1:11] not to expect, to, irrational to expect
[1:15] to live in peace and prosperity
[1:16] after, you know, over half a century
[1:19] of meddling in the Middle East.
[1:20] Isn't that the definition of blowback?
[1:24] - Yeah, it is, it is the definition of blowback.
[1:28] And I want less actors, like Osama Bin Laden,
[1:31] to exist in general.
[1:32] There's two schools of thought on this.
[1:34] One is obviously to, you know, kill as many people
[1:38] in the region as possible,
[1:40] with the hopes that we can squash
[1:42] any kind of resistance whatsoever.
[1:44] And the other path of least resistance
[1:48] is to not interfere in these affairs in general
[1:52] and not continue to dominate
[1:54] and create an environment where people
[1:56] are going to seek out revenge and put us
[1:59] in a position of danger.
[2:02] - But it's just, what's the difference
[2:03] between deserved and blowback?
[2:06] - Yeah, I think the difference
[2:08] between deserved and blowback is the justification.
[2:13] - So blowback is not, blowback is not a justification.
[2:18] Blowback is just what it is.
[2:20] A justification offers either a moral condemnation
[2:25] or a moral acceptance of the act.
[2:28] I do not accept the act of 9/11 morally.
[2:30] I believe that it was a horrifying tragedy.
[2:32] - Also talking, you know, to keep on the Middle East
[2:36] a little bit, the Trump administration has used the fact
[2:40] of we can't let Iran have a nuclear weapon
[2:43] as justification for this war.
[2:47] - Do you think Iran should be free to build a nuclear weapon?
[2:51] - I think Iran, much like any other sovereign nation,
[2:56] has a right to defend itself,
[2:58] regardless of its domestic policies.
[3:01] My opinion on the matter is not dissimilar
[3:04] to what John Mersheimer has said,
[3:07] which is that in order to create regional stability
[3:09] in a world where mutually assured destruction
[3:12] is the only way for countries to have sovereignty.
[3:14] It's the same principle that I apply to Ukraine as well.
[3:17] Countries that would have nuclear arms
[3:19] in an age of nuclear proliferation
[3:21] are the only countries that can generate true sovereignty.
[3:25] Now, having said that, do I want Iran to have nuclear arms?
[3:28] No, but I also don't want America or Russia or China
[3:31] to have nuclear arms either.
[3:32] - Do you think the Middle East would be more stable
[3:34] if Iran had a nuclear weapon?
[3:36] - I believe yes.
[3:36] I think that the Middle East would be more stable.
[3:39] Having said that, once again, I'm not advocating.
[3:41] I'm not trying to, you know, send Iran
[3:43] in rich nuclear uranium, but with respect to Iran,
[3:48] I think the nuclear conversation is a distraction.
[3:53] Time and time again, they have shown the Iranian government,
[3:57] regardless of whether you want to trust them or not,
[3:58] you can just look at their actions,
[4:00] have proven that they are utilizing the conversation
[4:04] of enriched uranium as a point of leverage
[4:07] to bring America back to the table to get sanctions relief.
[4:12] And we had a successful deal in play with the JCPOA
[4:15] under the Obama leadership.
[4:16] It was very controversial.
[4:17] It was not only critically panned by the entirety of the right,
[4:20] but also even Democrats, including Chuck Schumer,
[4:23] were very critical of this deal.
[4:25] And yet it was probably Obama's signature
[4:28] foreign policy accomplishment.
[4:30] And it unfortunately took us a decade or two decades
[4:34] to come to that recognition,
[4:38] to come to terms with that reality.
[4:40] But I think that that deal alone,
[4:44] this, you know, multi-year, multilateral deal
[4:48] that actually brought in China and Russia,
[4:50] as well as European partners,
[4:52] the International Atomic Energy Agency,
[4:54] had shown that Iran was willing
[4:58] to engage in diplomacy with the West.
[5:00] - One last thing on the Middle East and on this topic,
[5:04] at least, you once said that America
[5:07] is the top dog in terrorism.
[5:08] - Yes.
[5:09] - Do you think America then is worse than al-Qaeda?
[5:12] - Pound for pound, as far as the number of deaths.
[5:16] Yes, we have caused tremendous terror all around the world.
[5:19] I think that that is not only terror
[5:22] that we are waging on regular civilians
[5:25] in nations in the periphery,
[5:27] but it's also having consequences on ourselves.
[5:30] It's having dramatic consequences on the home front.
[5:33] One clear example of this is what we did in Minna, right?
[5:37] There's no distinction between blowing up a school,
[5:40] triple tapping it with Tomahawk missiles.
[5:43] If you're killing 140 school girls,
[5:45] that is an act of terror.
[5:46] This doesn't mean that all Americans are terrorists,
[5:49] but the reality of the matter is,
[5:51] we have to create an environment of accountability
[5:53] to ensure things like that never happen again.
[5:55] If we wanna seek out and punish those who terrorize us,
[5:59] like al-Qaeda, sometimes, you know, we aid in a bet,
[6:03] al-Qaeda, when we find them to be a reliable ally
[6:06] in places like Yemen, for example,
[6:08] but if we understandably wanna seek out
[6:12] and punish terrorist entities like al-Qaeda,
[6:16] we should also hold ourselves to a similar standard.
[6:20] If not a higher standard.
[6:22] You said not all Americans are terrorists.
[6:24] - Not fair.
[6:25] - Well, insinuating that, some are.
[6:27] - I think if you are doing terrorism,
[6:29] then yes, you are a terrorist.
[6:31] This is a loaded term at the end of the day,
[6:33] it's a vague term, and I'm not deploying it
[6:35] in the way that the American State Department
[6:38] utilizes it, which is a utilization of the term,
[6:42] terrorism, with the express purpose
[6:44] of denying habeas corpus.
[6:45] I think everyone needs to have their day in court,
[6:47] no matter how vile or heinous they might seem.
[6:50] Having said that, like I keep repeating over and over again,
[6:53] I think it's important to create accountability
[6:56] to make sure that we do not repeat these mistakes,
[6:58] not only because it creates an environment of blowback,
[7:01] but also because there's a finite amount of time
[7:05] and energy that we have, right?
[7:07] If we're using all of our productive output,
[7:10] all of our resources, on waging wars overseas
[7:12] for profit and plunder, we're not using those resources
[7:15] on ourselves, we're not using it on building schools,
[7:19] we're not using these resources on fixing the pothole,
[7:22] something as simple as that,
[7:23] and we're losing our competitive edge around the globe.
[7:26] I'm an American citizen.
[7:28] I talk about how frustrated I am with this country,
[7:31] even say, God, I hate this country sometimes.
[7:34] Having said that, if I truly hated this country, one,
[7:37] I'd probably be a Republican, let's be real,
[7:39] because I think they're destroying this country,
[7:42] or I would just leave.
[7:43] There's a reason why I stay here.
[7:45] There's a reason why I keep advocating
[7:47] for the things that I'm advocating for,
[7:48] because I truly believe in the promise of America.
[7:51] I believe in the goodness of my neighbors,
[7:53] I believe in the goodness of American citizens,
[7:55] and I know that people of good conscience
[7:58] can see right from wrong,
[7:59] and a lot of people are frustrated
[8:02] because they're not seeing the changes,
[8:03] and that develops, that breeds apathy,
[8:05] and I want to fight back against that,
[8:07] and I want Americans to take control
[8:10] over the reins once again.
[8:11] (upbeat music)
[8:14] - I'm shifting topics, Charlie Kirk.
[8:18] You had known him for a long time.
[8:20] - Yeah.
[8:21] - After he was killed, you called it fucking devastating.
[8:24] You know, it's a horrifying thing you've ever seen,
[8:26] and pure horror,
[8:28] but months later, you started sarcastically
[8:31] singing the song "We Are Charlie Kirk."
[8:33] You sang it live last month on tour,
[8:37] and later explained, "It's not my fault.
[8:38] "The song is a banger."
[8:40] - Yes.
[8:41] - You told your followers when he was killed
[8:42] to stop making jokes.
[8:44] - Yeah.
[8:45] - But then why did you start?
[8:47] - Great question.
[8:47] The hagiography of Charlie Kirk was,
[8:52] and the forced reverence coming from,
[8:54] not only the Republican Party,
[8:55] but like the government in general,
[8:56] and even some members of the liberal intelligentsia,
[9:00] was the reason why there was so much pushback.
[9:02] And even the "We Are Charlie Kirk" song itself
[9:05] is a way to, it was an attempt by a Republican
[9:09] who was a fan of Charlie Kirk to honor his legacy.
[9:13] While Charlie Kirk, the actions that took place,
[9:17] the assassination of Charlie Kirk is a heinous crime,
[9:19] and completely unjustifiable,
[9:22] I very quickly also talked about my disagreements
[9:26] with Charlie Kirk.
[9:28] And there were plenty of people,
[9:29] plenty regular citizens who were doing that as well.
[9:31] There were people who-
[9:32] - I'm not pushing that.
[9:33] - There were people who-
[9:33] - No, no, no, no, but it's important,
[9:35] because this is a big part of why this backlash,
[9:38] or rather, this is a big part of why people
[9:40] took this not as seriously.
[9:42] The argument isn't,
[9:43] oh, these people are elated at the fact
[9:45] that Charlie Kirk was killed.
[9:47] Are there people who feel that way?
[9:48] Absolutely.
[9:49] I'm not one of those people.
[9:50] - Yeah, but when you sing the song to your audience,
[9:53] you know that some of those people
[9:55] are those people that are elated that he's dead.
[9:58] - There could be.
[9:59] I'm not going to deny that,
[10:01] but at the end of the day,
[10:02] my opinion, and the opinion of my community,
[10:05] is that political violence is completely unacceptable.
[10:08] However, it's also unacceptable
[10:10] to try to apply force reverence,
[10:12] and literally cancel people
[10:14] for quoting Charlie Kirk's own statements.
[10:17] - Understand it. - Pointing Charlie Kirk's own statement.
[10:19] - And firing people.
[10:20] - I understand, but by singing the song,
[10:22] aren't you mocking something?
[10:24] - I'm mocking Charlie Kirk's positions,
[10:26] and also on top of that,
[10:28] I'm mocking the force reverence that took place.
[10:31] I'm not mocking Charlie Kirk's assassination,
[10:33] I'm not justifying Charlie Kirk's assassination,
[10:35] I think that is unjustifiable.
[10:36] My position on that is very clear.
[10:38] - You don't think you're making light of it?
[10:39] - No.
[10:40] And the reason why I say that is because
[10:42] I have written extensively on the subject,
[10:44] not only was I supposed to,
[10:46] not only have I known Charlie.
[10:49] - Oh, no, I've read all the things.
[10:50] - For a decade.
[10:52] - Yes, but also I was supposed to be on stage with him.
[10:54] - I know, and an environment where political violence
[10:57] is justified against political actors
[10:59] is an environment where I'm also a danger,
[11:00] so it's a matter of self-preservation,
[11:03] as well as having a morally consistent position on it.
[11:08] - Okay, well, on the topic of political violence,
[11:11] that's part of the reason I wanted to bring up Charlie Kirk.
[11:15] I'm gonna read you some of the things that you've said.
[11:16] - Yeah.
[11:17] - After a debate with Kirk several years ago,
[11:22] you said on your stream, I wanna fucking kill him.
[11:25] - You then backtrack and you said,
[11:27] you meant it in a video game way.
[11:29] - I don't even remember this.
[11:31] - Can I get through them?
[11:32] - Yeah, go ahead and respond.
[11:34] - You were banned on Twitch in 2025
[11:36] after saying if people cared about Medicare fraud,
[11:38] they would kill Senator Rick Scott.
[11:40] - Yeah.
[11:41] - You wanna sit?
[11:41] - No, really quick.
[11:42] - Well, I wanna clarify because--
[11:44] - No, I can clarify them all, I just wanna go through.
[11:46] - I know, but if I do it piece by piece,
[11:48] if I do it, you know,