Kamala Wouldn’t Have Been Better for Trans People Than MAGA

bastardizing a Mark Fisher quote to talk about the the inability of Democrats,

winning fucking red states is crazy. Okay, let's just continue for Arkansas.

And I think that's a problem. Yeah. So I think I think a couple things about

that.

First of all, I just want to bring in the, the, okay, everybody, one thing that

you fundamentally

misunderstand about Ezra Klein, Ezra Klein liberalism is that in many ways, he

's actually not

dissimilar to the way that destiny presents. So, you know, destiny is a fucking

mercenary. He

doesn't really give a shit about anything. But for Ezra Klein, the epitome is

letting the

Democratic Party win when he says, Oh, we have to let the Democratic Party win.

We have to do

anything in our power to let the Democratic Party win. What he's trying to say

is because

when the Democratic Party wins, and I'm sure he'll explain it in a second. The

honest of quotes,

it's still better than when the Republicans win. Okay. That's what his argument

is. So

everything that actually plays a role in undermining the chances of the

Democrats winning

is actually wrong and bad. If the Democrats are going further and further the

right,

at least they're not going to be as bad as the Republicans are. That's a

problem.

That is an issue. That is where that is at the heart of my disagreement with

someone like Ezra

Klein is that while marginal harm reduction narratives are theoretically true,

this is this

presents itself as a trap in the overton window shifting further and further to

the right as the

Democrats capitulate the right wing framing on all these issues. So that's

number one.

And number two, you usually end up losing anyway because it's not a good

fucking way to present

yourself. And we just lost his last election on those on those boundaries,

historical perspective,

not that long ago. I can remember when Obama won. And I believe you would

remember this too. And

there are all of these pieces about the end of conservatism and the end of the

Republican Party.

You don't know how it's going to go. Nobody, nobody, nobody really doesn't mean

you shouldn't

think about how it's going to go. Yes. But you really, no one really, really, I

mean, again to

and in 05, there were all these pieces about the end of the Democratic Party,

right? Democrats

had lost touch with the heart. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. They were never

going to get it back.

That's right. That's right. And so I think it's always like important to keep

that in the background.

Look, I have just in terms of bridging gaps and everything, I have a basic

level of respect that

I did I accord to everybody. You know what I mean? I want to say what I have to

say. I don't want

to shrink back from it. You know what I mean? But I do think on a basic level,

there's a respect

that has to be had for people that I that I disagree with, right? At the same

time,

I recognize that part of my audience, and I would say an important part of my

audience,

is people who have never enjoyed that respect. You know what I mean? People who

, in fact,

are subjects of the kind of hate that Charlie Kirk was harvesting. And I can't

ever

a contribute to making them feel like they've abandoned, they've been abandoned

.

And B, I can't ever stand by and watch somebody do that. And in the name of

unity or whatever,

act like that. That's not happening, because they're real consequences. And so

it's like,

when I read his words towards trans people, Jesus, what I read, you know what I

mean?

The language towards Haitian specific, which was very, very Haitians will

become your masters

if you don't like Charlie. I mean, it's very, very familiar to me. You know, it

's this idea of

Haitians coming into the country and we're going to rape being your daughters.

I mean,

this was really, really, really dark stuff is at the core of this country. And

so

I feel like for Haitian immigrants that are in, you know, Ohio, who are living

under the

weight of this, for trans kids who you know what I mean, are dealing with, you

know, being,

I don't even want to use the term bully, beaten up, attacked, threatened. You

know what I mean?

It's very, very important to me, given the post I have to say, I see you, but

also this dude was

wrong. And I'm all for unifying, I'm all for bridging gaps, but not at the

expense of my

neighbor's humanity. I just can't. I think this, the thing we go to there,

right? Not at the expense

of my neighbor's humanity. It's like, well, I can. Well, let me tell you how I

can.

Oh, don't worry, I can. Hold on. I'll explain.

Because I've gotten a lot of that in email, right? Like, how am I supposed to

talk to these people?

How am I supposed to deal with these people who are denying my humanity? I'm

not against

talking about it. I'll talk to you very clearly. I have no problem with that. I

guess

the place where I'm not even 100% sure if we disagree, if you just like sort of

see a role

differently, right? I think that in losing as badly as we have, we have imper

iled trans people

terribly. Yes, politics is for power. You'll buy and did that. Politics is for

power.

He's doing it. He's doing exactly what I said he was going to do. He's going to

tell you that,

and by the way, there is, this is a wrong statement that he's going to deliver,

but don't you think things will be better for trans people right now if Kamala

Harris,

after making concessions about transphobia and leaning into anti trans

narratives,

if she had won, don't you think things will be better for trans people as

opposed to right now?

The reason why this is wrong is twofold. Number one,

at that point, you've all you've done is, once again, concede to the right wing

framing on trans

people presenting some outsized harm to the American population. It's not only

incorrect,

but it's a harmful narrative, and you've leaned into it. And in that process of

leaning into it,

you have normalized it. You have legitimized the claims of your opponent.

Number two,

your opponent in the aftermath of that recognition will just turn around and

say, see these fucking

pro trans losers even recognize I'm right. Vote for me. I will deal with the

trans people with

the integrity necessary. Okay. So not only do you look hypocritical, but you

end up fucking

losing for that reason, because you can never defeat the Republicans on hate m

ongering. You just

can't. Okay. The second part of the story that is also objectionable, which I

have not even

waited for his statement, by the way, and I'm already fucking arguing against

what I know he's

going to say with my heart of fucking hearts, because I've heard of so many

goddamn times from

other liberals, is that Joe Biden was president when Republicans were

aggressively hitting the

anti trans narratives, and also successfully implementing anti trans

legislation at the state

legislature level already building the fucking framework for what came next.

And in the absence

of fighting back against that, the administration also allowed this to happen

in some very meaningful

ways. Anyway, let's hear what Ezra has to say, though.

And so I think that the question I am just genuinely struggling with isn't how

to have like a great

kumbaya moment. But I think it is taking seriously that something we're doing

is not working. I mean,

I'd Sarah McBride, who's the first trans member of Congress on the show. And

you know, she was

talking, we were talking about every single survey you can offer on like trans

rights has gone in

the wrong direction, basketball years, right? We've just begun to lose that

argument terribly.

And that has put people in real danger. So I take your point when you say, look

, I want people to

see you'll see in my writing. And I want people to feel seen in my writing and

my podcasting.

But I think that the place I'm trying to push towards is I think that there is

a

diminishment of the political coalition building that we now need to do,

because we have come to the

view that a pretty wide variety of people aren't some ways kind of deplorables.

I think it's

we can have been the last couple of years. I would never use that language.

Jesus Christ. But

like, I think about that, Hillary Clinton, that's what like, I would never say

it like that.

That's great. I think it's good that you wouldn't say it like that. But I still

,

I'm not. I don't even think that by the way, like I don't like, I don't even

focus on people.

Hey, look, I am at war with certain ideologies and ideas. And I want them

explained. I want

to turn them into phrenology. That's what I want. But I don't want the people.

You know what I mean?

Not a timely reference. Because if there's one ideology that was destroyed

thoroughly,

dismantled intellectually, that is making a major comeback, it is probably ph

renology.

So, oops, oops, phrenology is back out like when you start talking about who

people are in their

bones like that. So in a way, I'm not sure. I mean, in a way, I think we're

saying something

not too dissimilar here. I guess the place where I felt a lot of pushback and

maybe this was not

your pushback, right? Except for cop, phrenology, that's a real study. That's a

real scientific

study, as you guys know, was, you know, the first piece I can just sort of,

like, I accept that

there's a disagreement on like what to do in the 24 hours after a death. Like,

you feel like I was

white washing the guy and I felt like I was sort of, yeah, I know you do. I

know you do. I know you do.

The second piece I did, which I think you saw was more about this question of

what are we going

to do living here in sort of two types of disagreement, right? One with a right

that has,

where chocolate cookies become sort of the center of it, right? He's not

unusual for the

Maga coalition. He's a sort of uniting force within it. And the kind of things

he believed in the way

he did his politics. And then two, what are we going to do? Like, how are we

going to be here with

people? We're like halfway there, right? What does it mean to be in this

political community

together? What do you think about that question? About how to live together?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I think it's a truth. You know what I mean? I think

it's a, you know,

like it's a foregone, like we are. Yeah, I really, really believe that, you

know. There's no real

choice about this. You know, I'm not renouncing my American citizenship. They

're not renouncing

their American citizenship. So this then, you know, as far as I'm concerned, it

's a contest of ideas

and narratives. Again, all I can go to is my role as a writer. And my role as a

writer is to state

things as clearly as I possibly can to make them in such a way that they haunt

the state truths

and to reinforce the probably the animating notion of my politics. And that is

that all humanity is

equal. And it's worthy of that. You know, and I actually think all of the sort

of political

and policy positions are, you know, that I probably find myself in sympathy

with are attempting to

affect that, you know, in the real world. And so, and again, I'm putting aside

your piece, but I'm

just thinking about the moment we're in. When I hear or see people who are

honored and commemorated

in such a way so that they almost become a national religious figure. And then

I see their content.

And I see that their content is actively destructive to humanity. I have to

draw a line there. Like,

I just, I think like, for me, like the bigger question is where the lines, you

know what I mean?

And I think there's no problem with saying, listen, you can't hear all epitaff

es of people. Yeah,

I would if you do that. I'm sorry. Look, you want to have a debate about

whether we should

have affirmative action, you know, in colleges. I'm here for it. You want to

have what does it

mean to be on the other side of the line? I'm sorry. What do you mean? What is

it?

So once somebody's on the other side of the line, right? What does that mean

for you? For instance,

once you think it's okay? No, no, I am too. Yes. Once you for whatever,

whatever the definition of

the line is, right? What does it mean for you for somebody to be on the other

side of it, right?

Not somebody who just died, right? But somebody still living, right? If you

think it is okay to

dehumanize people, then conversation between you and I is probably not possible

. And so what do you

do with the fact that so many people think that it's okay? I think what you try

to do is, again,

again, this is the difference, right? Like, I don't necessarily have the

crystal ball to say that in

this time, I'm going to be able to convince a majority of people, that's an

instance. Let's just

take the thing that's hot right now, trans folks are human beings and deserve

human. Although, I think

most people know that you shouldn't say what he said. Like that shit is rude.

It's just rude to

talk to people like that. And I think most people know that. So it's something,