WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.480 pushing whatever they find to be advantageous. 2 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:07.320 The thing that I'm saying was, of course, 3 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:11.560 that America's actions in the region, 4 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:14.800 including aiding and abetting not only the Taliban, 5 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:19.040 but also the Mujahideen and some instances, 6 00:00:19.040 --> 00:00:22.360 some of the factions that broke off and created al-Qaeda, 7 00:00:22.360 --> 00:00:27.040 ended up engaging in blowback 8 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.000 for the consistency stabilization in the region. 9 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:32.000 This is a position that actually, I believe, 10 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:34.880 I was looking at the polls all the way back in 2001, 11 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:39.640 had 66% approval, that America in some way, shape or form, 12 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:41.440 was responsible for 9/11. 13 00:00:41.440 --> 00:00:42.280 What poll was this? 14 00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:45.000 Which is, actually, I'm gonna pull it up real quick. 15 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.560 'Cause I found it to be fascinating. 16 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:48.560 I was recently going back to see like, 17 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:50.440 what was the attitude even back then? 18 00:00:50.440 --> 00:00:55.680 Hold on, I might have actually presented it more favorable 19 00:00:55.680 --> 00:01:00.680 than it actually is, but I wanna quickly pull it up for you. 20 00:01:00.680 --> 00:01:03.600 It's a very old poll, and I was shocked by it, too, 21 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:05.480 so I think it's fascinating. 22 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:09.680 US wrongdoing might have motivated 9/11 attacks. 23 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:14.680 In 2001, 33% of all Americans said that US wrongdoing 24 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:18.320 might have motivated 9/11 attacks, 2002, 25 00:01:18.320 --> 00:01:22.020 by 2002, it was 38%, 2004, it was 38%. 26 00:01:22.020 --> 00:01:22.860 And amongst them-- 27 00:01:22.860 --> 00:01:23.700 What poll was this? 28 00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:28.520 30%, the poll comes from Pew Research. 29 00:01:28.520 --> 00:01:29.920 Okay, but that's less than 66. 30 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:30.760 Yeah, yeah, I was wrong. 31 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:32.580 It was what I was looking at was 32 00:01:32.580 --> 00:01:37.080 fully two-thirds of liberal Democrats. 33 00:01:37.080 --> 00:01:37.920 Got it. 34 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.580 That said that, 67%. 35 00:01:40.580 --> 00:01:42.060 Having said that, of course, 36 00:01:42.060 --> 00:01:47.240 there is public approval, and then there is the truth. 37 00:01:47.240 --> 00:01:50.140 And not only do I believe that this was the truth, 38 00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:52.260 it's a well-established academic concept. 39 00:01:52.260 --> 00:01:54.200 CIA has also talked about it as well, 40 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:57.880 but Robert Kagan, the godfather of neocons, 41 00:01:57.880 --> 00:01:59.800 recently wrote for the Brookings Institute about how, 42 00:01:59.800 --> 00:02:02.000 yes, of course, our meddling in the affairs 43 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:06.040 of the Middle East is what inevitably caused 9/11. 44 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:10.320 So, blowback, would that include US support for Israel, 45 00:02:10.320 --> 00:02:12.480 military bases throughout the Middle East? 46 00:02:12.480 --> 00:02:14.640 You know, U.S. oil policies. 47 00:02:14.640 --> 00:02:15.720 Absolutely. 48 00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:17.960 This doesn't justify the action, mind you. 49 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:21.840 This is more so analysis to stop further violence 50 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:25.140 from taking place, both violence in the region, 51 00:02:25.140 --> 00:02:27.540 but also violence in the home front as well. 52 00:02:27.540 --> 00:02:29.420 The reason I bring up those things is because 53 00:02:29.420 --> 00:02:32.300 those are specifically cited by a song of Bin Laden 54 00:02:32.300 --> 00:02:35.660 as justification for, and I guess my question is-- 55 00:02:35.660 --> 00:02:38.740 And also our, you know, our civil liberties. 56 00:02:38.740 --> 00:02:42.180 Well, did Bin Laden have a point? 57 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:46.260 No, I think that the action was so heinous and so violent 58 00:02:46.260 --> 00:02:51.260 that, and also given his position as formerly, 59 00:02:51.380 --> 00:02:55.380 an American ally, as I believe it was a telegraph 60 00:02:55.380 --> 00:02:59.100 that called the brave warrior fighting against the USSR 61 00:02:59.100 --> 00:03:01.860 to throw a path of peace in Afghanistan. 62 00:03:01.860 --> 00:03:06.580 I think that he came across a little bit more 63 00:03:06.580 --> 00:03:11.820 as a spoiled brat that wasn't getting his way 64 00:03:11.820 --> 00:03:14.260 with many backers in the Saudi kingdom as well 65 00:03:14.260 --> 00:03:15.180 in the royal family. 66 00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:17.460 Bin Laden, me, he wrote in that letter, you know, 67 00:03:17.460 --> 00:03:19.620 which as you know, has sort of had a second life 68 00:03:19.620 --> 00:03:21.220 among some in the left wing. 69 00:03:21.220 --> 00:03:22.060 Yeah. 70 00:03:22.060 --> 00:03:25.740 That, you know, Americans would be irrational, 71 00:03:25.740 --> 00:03:30.100 not to expect, to, irrational to expect to live in peace 72 00:03:30.100 --> 00:03:32.420 and prosperity after, you know, 73 00:03:32.420 --> 00:03:34.940 over half a century of meddling in the Middle East. 74 00:03:34.940 --> 00:03:36.980 Isn't that the definition of blowback? 75 00:03:36.980 --> 00:03:39.860 Yeah, it is. 76 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:43.020 It is the definition of blowback. 77 00:03:43.020 --> 00:03:45.740 And I want less actors, like Osama Bin Laden, 78 00:03:45.740 --> 00:03:46.900 to exist in general. 79 00:03:46.900 --> 00:03:48.460 There's two schools of thought on this. 80 00:03:48.460 --> 00:03:52.500 One is obviously to, you know, kill as many people 81 00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:54.620 in the region as possible with the hopes 82 00:03:54.620 --> 00:03:58.860 that we can squash any kind of resistance whatsoever. 83 00:03:58.860 --> 00:04:02.540 And the other path of least resistance 84 00:04:02.540 --> 00:04:06.540 is to not interfere in these affairs in general 85 00:04:06.540 --> 00:04:10.140 and not continue to dominate and create an environment 86 00:04:10.140 --> 00:04:11.820 where people are going to seek out revenge 87 00:04:11.820 --> 00:04:15.980 and put us in a position of danger. 88 00:04:15.980 --> 00:04:19.420 It's just what's the difference between deserved 89 00:04:19.420 --> 00:04:20.860 and blowback? 90 00:04:20.860 --> 00:04:21.740 Yeah. 91 00:04:21.740 --> 00:04:23.580 I think the difference between deserved and blowback 92 00:04:23.580 --> 00:04:28.580 is the justification. 93 00:04:28.580 --> 00:04:32.180 Say blowback is not, blowback is not a justification. 94 00:04:32.180 --> 00:04:34.660 Blowback is just what it is. 95 00:04:34.660 --> 00:04:39.260 A justification offers a, either a moral condemnation 96 00:04:39.260 --> 00:04:42.140 or a moral acceptance of the act. 97 00:04:42.140 --> 00:04:44.220 I do not accept the act of 9/11 morally. 98 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:46.900 I believe that it was a horrifying tragedy. 99 00:04:46.900 --> 00:04:52.300 Also talking, you know, to keep on the Middle East a little bit. 100 00:04:52.300 --> 00:04:54.860 The Trump administration has used the fact of, 101 00:04:54.860 --> 00:04:57.260 we can't let Iran have a nuclear weapon 102 00:04:57.260 --> 00:05:00.100 as justification for this war. 103 00:05:00.100 --> 00:05:03.980 Do you think Iran should be free to build a nuclear weapon? 104 00:05:03.980 --> 00:05:10.020 I think Iran, much like any other sovereign nation, 105 00:05:10.020 --> 00:05:12.420 has a right to defend itself, 106 00:05:12.420 --> 00:05:15.700 regardless of its domestic policies. 107 00:05:15.700 --> 00:05:18.380 My opinion on the matter is not dissimilar 108 00:05:18.380 --> 00:05:21.100 to what John Mersheimer has said, 109 00:05:21.100 --> 00:05:23.980 which is that in order to create regional stability 110 00:05:23.980 --> 00:05:26.100 in a world where mutually assured destruction 111 00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:28.420 is the only way for countries to have sovereignty. 112 00:05:28.420 --> 00:05:31.140 It's the same principle that I apply to Ukraine as well. 113 00:05:31.140 --> 00:05:33.740 Countries that would have nuclear arms 114 00:05:33.740 --> 00:05:35.820 in an age of nuclear proliferation 115 00:05:35.820 --> 00:05:39.100 are the only countries that can generate true sovereignty. 116 00:05:39.100 --> 00:05:42.180 Now, having said that, do I want Iran to have nuclear arms? 117 00:05:42.180 --> 00:05:45.180 No, but I also don't want America or Russia or China 118 00:05:45.180 --> 00:05:46.660 to have nuclear arms either. 119 00:05:46.660 --> 00:05:48.940 Do you think the Middle East would be more stable 120 00:05:48.940 --> 00:05:50.140 if Iran had a nuclear weapon? 121 00:05:50.140 --> 00:05:50.940 I believe yes. 122 00:05:50.940 --> 00:05:53.140 I think that the Middle East would be more stable. 123 00:05:53.140 --> 00:05:55.500 Having said that, once again, I'm not advocating. 124 00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:57.340 I'm not trying to, you know, send Iran 125 00:05:57.340 --> 00:06:00.860 enriched nuclear uranium, nuclear grade enriched uranium. 126 00:06:00.860 --> 00:06:03.900 But with respect to Iran, 127 00:06:03.900 --> 00:06:07.380 I think the nuclear conversation is a distraction. 128 00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:11.180 Time and time again, they have shown the Iranian government, 129 00:06:11.180 --> 00:06:12.540 regardless of whether you want to trust them or not, 130 00:06:12.540 --> 00:06:14.300 you can just look at their actions, 131 00:06:14.300 --> 00:06:18.620 have proven that they are utilizing the conversation 132 00:06:18.620 --> 00:06:21.900 of enriched uranium as a point of leverage 133 00:06:21.900 --> 00:06:26.180 to bring America back to the table to get sanctions relief. 134 00:06:26.180 --> 00:06:29.340 And we had a successful deal in play with the JCPOA 135 00:06:29.340 --> 00:06:30.540 under the Obama leadership. 136 00:06:30.540 --> 00:06:31.540 It was very controversial. 137 00:06:31.540 --> 00:06:34.580 It was not only critically panned by the entirety of the right, 138 00:06:34.580 --> 00:06:37.340 but also even Democrats, including Chuck Schumer, 139 00:06:37.340 --> 00:06:39.620 were very critical of this deal. 140 00:06:39.620 --> 00:06:43.740 And yet, it was probably Obama's signature foreign policy 141 00:06:43.740 --> 00:06:45.020 accomplishment. 142 00:06:45.020 --> 00:06:47.940 And it unfortunately took us a decade, 143 00:06:47.940 --> 00:06:52.300 or two decades, to come to that recognition, 144 00:06:52.300 --> 00:06:54.220 to come to terms with that reality. 145 00:06:54.220 --> 00:06:58.620 But I think that that deal alone, 146 00:06:58.620 --> 00:07:02.060 this, you know, multi-year, multilateral deal 147 00:07:02.060 --> 00:07:04.220 that actually brought in China and Russia, 148 00:07:04.220 --> 00:07:06.340 as well as European partners, 149 00:07:06.340 --> 00:07:09.340 the International Atomic Energy Agency, 150 00:07:09.340 --> 00:07:13.420 had shown that Iran was willing to engage in diplomacy 151 00:07:13.420 --> 00:07:14.820 with the West. 152 00:07:14.820 --> 00:07:18.740 - One last thing on the Middle East and on this topic, 153 00:07:18.740 --> 00:07:19.580 at least. 154 00:07:19.580 --> 00:07:22.780 You once said that America is the top dog in terrorism. 155 00:07:22.780 --> 00:07:23.780 - Yes. 156 00:07:23.780 --> 00:07:25.980 - Do you think America then is worse than al Qaeda? 157 00:07:25.980 --> 00:07:30.020 - Pound for pound, as far as the number of deaths. 158 00:07:30.020 --> 00:07:33.340 Yes, we have caused tremendous terror all around the world. 159 00:07:33.340 --> 00:07:37.700 I think that that is not only terror that we are waging 160 00:07:37.700 --> 00:07:41.460 on regular civilians in nations in the periphery, 161 00:07:41.460 --> 00:07:44.180 but it's also having consequences on ourselves. 162 00:07:44.180 --> 00:07:47.940 It's having dramatic consequences on the home front. 163 00:07:47.940 --> 00:07:51.940 One clear example of this is what we did in Minna, right? 164 00:07:51.940 --> 00:07:54.620 There's no distinction between blowing up a school, 165 00:07:54.620 --> 00:07:56.980 triple tapping it with Tomahawk missiles. 166 00:07:56.980 --> 00:07:59.180 If you're killing 140 school girls, 167 00:07:59.180 --> 00:08:00.700 that is an act of terror. 168 00:08:00.700 --> 00:08:03.300 This doesn't mean that all Americans are terrorists, 169 00:08:03.300 --> 00:08:06.380 but the reality of the matter is we have to create 170 00:08:06.380 --> 00:08:08.300 an environment of accountability to ensure things 171 00:08:08.300 --> 00:08:09.700 like that never happen again. 172 00:08:09.700 --> 00:08:13.420 If we want to seek out and punish those who terrorize us, 173 00:08:13.420 --> 00:08:18.420 like al Qaeda, sometimes we aid in a bet al Qaeda, 174 00:08:18.420 --> 00:08:21.140 when we find them to be a reliable ally in places 175 00:08:21.140 --> 00:08:22.460 like Yemen, for example. 176 00:08:22.460 --> 00:08:26.900 But if we understandably want to seek out 177 00:08:26.900 --> 00:08:30.820 and punish terrorist entities like al Qaeda, 178 00:08:30.820 --> 00:08:34.580 we should also hold ourselves to a similar standard. 179 00:08:34.580 --> 00:08:35.940 If not a higher standard. 180 00:08:35.940 --> 00:08:38.900 You said not all Americans are terrorists. 181 00:08:38.900 --> 00:08:41.780 And it's insinuating that some are. 182 00:08:41.780 --> 00:08:43.900 I think if you are doing terrorism, 183 00:08:43.900 --> 00:08:45.420 then yes, you are a terrorist. 184 00:08:45.420 --> 00:08:47.220 This is a loaded term at the end of the day. 185 00:08:47.220 --> 00:08:49.940 It's a vague term, and I'm not deploying it 186 00:08:49.940 --> 00:08:52.740 in the way that the American State Department 187 00:08:52.740 --> 00:08:57.380 utilizes it, which is a utilization of the term terrorism 188 00:08:57.380 --> 00:08:59.700 with the express purpose of denying habeas corpus. 189 00:08:59.700 --> 00:09:01.860 I think everyone needs to have their day in court, 190 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:04.500 no matter how vile or heinous they might seem. 191 00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:07.940 Having said that, like I keep repeating over and over again, 192 00:09:07.940 --> 00:09:10.460 I think it's important to create accountability 193 00:09:10.460 --> 00:09:12.860 to make sure that we do not repeat these mistakes, 194 00:09:12.860 --> 00:09:15.860 not only because it creates an environment of blowback, 195 00:09:15.860 --> 00:09:19.620 but also because there's a finite amount of time 196 00:09:19.620 --> 00:09:21.660 and energy that we have, right? 197 00:09:21.660 --> 00:09:24.060 If we're using all of our productive output, 198 00:09:24.060 --> 00:09:26.420 all of our resources on waging wars overseas 199 00:09:26.420 --> 00:09:27.900 for profit and plunder, 200 00:09:27.900 --> 00:09:30.260 we're not using those resources on ourselves. 201 00:09:30.260 --> 00:09:33.220 We're not using it on building schools. 202 00:09:33.220 --> 00:09:36.380 We're not using these resources on fixing the pothole, 203 00:09:36.380 --> 00:09:37.740 something as simple as that. 204 00:09:37.740 --> 00:09:40.860 And we're losing our competitive edge around the globe. 205 00:09:40.860 --> 00:09:42.820 I'm an American citizen. 206 00:09:42.820 --> 00:09:45.500 I talk about how frustrated I am with this country. 207 00:09:45.500 --> 00:09:48.380 I even say, God, I hate this country sometimes. 208 00:09:48.380 --> 00:09:51.220 Having said that, if I truly hated this country, 209 00:09:51.220 --> 00:09:53.620 one, I'd probably be a Republican, let's be real, 210 00:09:53.620 --> 00:09:56.420 because I think they're destroying this country. 211 00:09:56.420 --> 00:09:58.140 Or I would just leave. 212 00:09:58.140 --> 00:09:59.700 There's a reason why I stay here. 213 00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:01.260 There's a reason why I keep advocating 214 00:10:01.260 --> 00:10:02.820 for the things that I'm advocating for, 215 00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:05.220 because I truly believe in the promise of America. 216 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:07.660 I believe in the goodness of my neighbors. 217 00:10:07.660 --> 00:10:09.700 I believe in the goodness of American citizens. 218 00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:12.020 And I know that people of good conscious 219 00:10:12.020 --> 00:10:13.580 can see right from wrong. 220 00:10:13.580 --> 00:10:16.140 And a lot of people are frustrated 221 00:10:16.140 --> 00:10:17.860 because they're not seeing the changes 222 00:10:17.860 --> 00:10:19.660 and that develops, that breeds apathy. 223 00:10:19.660 --> 00:10:21.300 I want to fight back against that. 224 00:10:21.300 --> 00:10:24.140 And I want Americans to take control 225 00:10:24.140 --> 00:10:25.380 over the reins once again. 226 00:10:25.380 --> 00:10:27.960 (upbeat music) 227 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:32.540 - I'm shifting topics, Charlie Kirk. 228 00:10:32.540 --> 00:10:34.260 You had known him for a long time. 229 00:10:34.260 --> 00:10:35.100 - Yeah. 230 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:38.180 - After he was killed, you called it fucking devastating. 231 00:10:38.180 --> 00:10:40.420 You know, it's a horrifying thing you've ever seen 232 00:10:40.420 --> 00:10:42.140 and pure horror. 233 00:10:42.140 --> 00:10:45.380 But months later, you started sarcastically 234 00:10:45.380 --> 00:10:47.860 singing the song, "We Are Charlie Kirk." 235 00:10:47.860 --> 00:10:51.060 You sang it live last month on tour 236 00:10:51.060 --> 00:10:52.700 and later explained, "It's not my fault. 237 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:54.060 The song is a banger." 238 00:10:54.060 --> 00:10:55.260 - Yes. 239 00:10:55.260 --> 00:10:56.820 - You told your followers when he was killed 240 00:10:56.820 --> 00:10:58.300 to stop making jokes. 241 00:10:58.300 --> 00:10:59.140 - Yeah. 242 00:10:59.140 --> 00:11:01.060 - But then why did you start? 243 00:11:01.060 --> 00:11:01.900 - Great question. 244 00:11:01.900 --> 00:11:06.060 The hagiography of Charlie Kirk was 245 00:11:06.060 --> 00:11:08.300 and the forced reverence coming from 246 00:11:08.300 --> 00:11:09.300 not only the Republican Party, 247 00:11:09.300 --> 00:11:10.700 but like the government in general. 248 00:11:10.700 --> 00:11:14.820 And even some members of the liberal intelligentsia 249 00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:16.900 was the reason why there was so much pushback. 250 00:11:16.900 --> 00:11:19.420 And even the "We Are Charlie Kirk" song itself 251 00:11:19.420 --> 00:11:23.940 is a way to, it was an attempt by a Republican, 252 00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:27.160 who was a fan of Charlie Kirk, to honor his legacy. 253 00:11:27.160 --> 00:11:31.340 While Charlie Kirk, the actions that took place, 254 00:11:31.340 --> 00:11:33.980 the assassination of Charlie Kirk is a heinous crime 255 00:11:33.980 --> 00:11:36.620 and completely unjustifiable, 256 00:11:36.620 --> 00:11:40.980 I very quickly also talked about my disagreements 257 00:11:40.980 --> 00:11:42.180 with Charlie Kirk. 258 00:11:42.180 --> 00:11:43.180 And there were plenty of people, 259 00:11:43.180 --> 00:11:45.420 plenty regular citizens who were doing that as well. 260 00:11:45.420 --> 00:11:46.260 There were people that-- 261 00:11:46.260 --> 00:11:47.100 - I'm not pushing back. 262 00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:49.020 - No, no, no, no, no, but it's important 263 00:11:49.020 --> 00:11:52.260 because this is a big part of why this backlash. 264 00:11:52.260 --> 00:11:54.740 Or rather, this is a big part of why people 265 00:11:54.740 --> 00:11:56.700 took this not as seriously. 266 00:11:56.700 --> 00:11:59.220 The argument isn't, oh, these people are elated 267 00:11:59.220 --> 00:12:01.020 at the fact that Charlie Kirk.